How to go to 4.0

[Reginald Rutledge]

Coaches,

What's great about miniature football is that you are not restricted by what some other league or standard wants.

I can just speak for leagues that have agreed to use 4.0 grams in this manner. Here are their standards for:

BAM League
DFW League
ACEFL
Texas Shootout

4.0 grams Max, No steroids, can use magnetic tape or putty to bring teams to weight

That does not mean those teams have to be at that weight but that is the max they can be at.

Now if the LAEFL wanted to allow 4.0 grams with boiled bases, that's the standard that you chose. When you chose 3.2 grams with boiled bases, that's the standard you chose.

Based on whatever tourney you decide to go to, that is the standard that would be used. Then, it is up to you to make a conscience decision whether to go or not go and participate in that said tournament.

Just my take...

[speedy]

Jim D.

Some of us can't afford to by a bunch of custom figures for .50 to ?? for each figure so we use the fab 5 or the bb figures and add weight to it to come up to the 4.0 or as in the mid -ohio 3.5 i weigh in at 2.9 with my fab 5 line man some are 2.8 so it just needs a little boost to be able to compete. Am I making sense?? Anyway good topic cause me and Mike Jonez was just talking about it. Jimmy give me a hollar some time 330-277-1609 peace!

Steve

[kotixblack]

Reg, you are correct is saying do what you do in your league. I totally agree. My point in asking about boiled bases @ 4.0 is due to wanting to participate in shootout style tournaments across the Country, and wanting to know how to build my team. I'm guessing that when L.A. does its version of the Shootout Series, boiled bases will be allowed at a 4.0 weight limit, but no magnetic tape or magnets will be allowed on the bases. Certain advantages can be gained when using magnets (I will not go into it at the moment). So, when L.A. or L.V. finally gets on board with the Shootout Series, will you guys still participate even though we will most likely allow boild bases? There has been too much division in this hobby due to equipment standards and silly disagreements. I believe the guys out West will not have a problem compromising to 4.0 as long as they can use their boiled bases. If there is no longer an unfair advantage gained by using boiled bases, then why not. Again, I'm not trying to change what you do, just asking for an explanation of why not boiled bases. This will be the last time I bring it up. If the subject comes up, yes I will argue my points, but I will not bring it to the table again re: TX Rules. If I do decide to get down with you guys (If excepted) then I will build my team omiting boild bases, but using magnets @ 4.0. I don't have an agenda other than MAXIMUM FUN and PROMOTION of the hobby.

[Reginald Rutledge]

How could you even ask if you are accepted? Personally, I am always down with my brothers in Los Angeles!

I can only speak for myself. My take on the boiled base thing is that there is still a stigma outside of the LAEFL towards boiled bases. I hear too often, even to this day, that guys will not come to a tournament where boiled bases are allowed.

I think I had this conversation with RJ a little while ago. He asked me why this was a problem for the DFW League (If it was not RJ, it was someone schooled in the LA format and I apologize RJ)?

I told him the first thing biggest problem I had on boiled bases was "Do you have one source?" This is what I based fairness on. If there was simply one source who made the bases and allowed everyone equal acess, then you could argue your point on that premise. When everyone is creating their own boiled bases, some may do it better than others or unequally than others and that does not promote fairness in the concoction that is being used. As long as you have one source that I know you can get the bases from and I can get the bases from, then it should be no problem. But when you are going home and doing your own recipe and unwilling to share the exact secrets you use because you know in your heart of hearts, you want an advantage over the next person, then it is not a fair and equal playing field. I don't even think people would even have a problem with paying if they knew they could get exactly the same thing that you had. When they feel they can't, then there is a feeling that you are just wanting to win over me instead of playing me in a fair manner.

Some people have even argued, "Well Reg, what about your figures? Are they unfair?" I submit to them that in the DFW League, we are about the most fair league that is out there. We never discriminate against any manufacturer's figures! Never! Even when we know other manufacturers don't allow our products in their leagues or tournaments. If people want custom poses, we offer DVDs or we can make them or allow you to do your own creation. But everyone has equal access and rights of using whatever figures they want in the DFW League.

Oh yes my friend, there is still a stigma. It's like that child in the attic that no one wants to discuss (I don't know why I let yall pull me back into these arguments. I am like a lightning rod!). But from what I know, a lot of guys will not come as long as they see "boiled" on a tournament. Some guys decided to come to the Shootout because we had taken away the "boiled" bases from years past. I am definitely not trying to disrespect my "brother" league out in Cali but you know, this is something we've discussed in the past.

If you can assure people that you would be the ONLY supplier of boiled bases and everyone had equal access to those bases as you, then maybe you will have some who would take that drive out to Los Angeles.

The question I have for you would be "Why could you not for just one weekend, for the good of the game, put your boiled bases aside and create the tournament without steroids/boiled bases?" Whether you create your own weight standard or go 3.2 grams, I know it gives people the interest to want to make that run out there.

For many years, I know we had discussed this but you did not seem too keen on wanting to do anything. I had a few other people/leagues who wanted to try to make this Shootout Series work from New York and the DC area and potentially Florida. All these guys play without boiled bases. I would never want to isolate or keep you guys out of what the Shootout Series is all about! Yall know it as well as us and hopefully enjoy the system like us. We want to fellowship with yall but the boiled base issue is such a small compromise to get everyone in one city.

How the Shootout Series is rolling is that we may be switching sites every half year or year. I know the Big Apple will be hosting one year. I know San Antonio wants to host. RJ is really pushing Vegas! I got my boy down in Florida who wants to do something. And just maybe, KBoddie may get up the nerves to do something in DC. So yeah, don't allow boiled bases to stop us. Let's come together.

Holla at me!

Reg

[kotixblack]

I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get guys to travel to L.A or Vegas to participate in the Shootout Series. The more tournaments set up with our style of play give me the opportunity to travel and build a tourney ready teams that I can use in various tournaments. I get your point about the BOILED BASES (LOUD & CLEAR). That is a excellent point. If there was a manufacturer of boilable bases, then that is exactly what I would do ( pass them out @ the tourney pre-boiled, for the coach to tweak himself). Back to coaches traveling. We have at least 32 coaches in the L.A. Area who have once upon a time participated in the LAEFL. If at least 1/3 of coaches who are members of the MFCA would commit to traveling, then I think the coaches from the West would consider putting their OIL INJECTED bases away for a weekend. My compromise would have been boiled @ 3.3, and weighted @ 4.0 but, you have opened my eyes with your boiled by, tweaked by the same person for everyone suggestion...therefore, I will definitly work on my 4.0 squad.

To answer your question Reg...I would gladly put down my boiled bases for 1 weekend for the good of the hobby if coaches would indeed travel out West. As I mentioned before, we have almost 40 EF/MF coaches in So Cal alone, not counting Central (Fresno), & Northern Cali (San Fran). I'm not sure if coaches would want to change, or build new teams to accomodate 5-10 coaches who may or may not COMMIT to traveling.
I will be @ the house 2 day around 7PM PST...give me a holla 323/290-3434.

[Reginald Rutledge]

but we will talk.

I just wish that we could have had this type of discussion many years ago when the energy level was sky high! I know I have tried over the years to bring so many people together but for whatever the reason, it was not happenin'! You can only do so much.

Now its the guys in Vegas who seem not to want to hear what I am saying. These are all leagues that play under the Shootout ruleset and know it to a Tee!

But because of the insistence or demands of wanting it strictly their way, then everyone loses! That's the shame of it.

I know my tournament time is about to get real short real soon here. With all the things I got going on, the only thing I know I will be going to at this point is the BAM Championship. But if you guys are looking to do something in the next year or so, let me know and I will definitely try to support anything that is Shootout specific. But again, I am just one person.

Reg

[kotixblack]

The reason it has taken us so long to attempt to do something is because we want to do it big by making sure that the finances are in place, and maybe getting a sponsor. If I'm going to be involved with some type of L.A. Tournament, then it has to be done the right way, no half asssin. I too am tired of trying to get grown men to get together for the good of the hobby, and expose them to our style as well as learning different styles of game play. I have been back in the hobby for 8 years now. I was hyped for my first two conventions, then after being exposed to the cliques, egos, and bias..my enthusiasm fell off. I even traveled to one city where one of the biggest leagues exist to see my girl, and try to get in some EF/MF in..I was stonewalled. I couldn't get a call back or directions to where they were playing or anything. So, I feel you on traveling etc; Yes, I do want to see the hobby grow and represented in a good light, but I have grown too old and wise and life is too short to beg grown men to compromise their egos and have some fun. At this point in my EF/MF career, I would like to fellowship, and coach against people who genuinly love, or want to learn the hobby. When I say learn the hobby, I mean put in the time to build their own team by learning to tweak their own bases, and have the integrity to not go to someone who is heads above the rest and ask them to build their team so that they could compete. I say, put in the work yourself if this is your hobby/sport. I said all of that to say that I feel you totally on your point about the boiled base ban in your league.

[Michigan Joe]

Coach Jim Davis, my point of showing how to add weight is simply because I thought that having this knowledge can help unite the hobby. I don't think if you play in a non-manufacturer's tournament you should have to use just fab 5 or FF.com figures or buzzbal figure or whatever. Adding weight is simply a way for people who want to play at a 4.0 tournament (or league) but maybe they have lighter figures like buzzball and they get the impression that weight is everything so they unfortunately choose to sit out. To me, the weight issue (or boiling or whatever) shouldn't be a barrier for guys getting together for this hobby.

Hey coaches from west who like to boil, I want to go on the record as saying I'm in favor of boiled bases (if thats what YOU choose to use) and I would never avoid playing with you guys due to that. Anything you can do to get these miniature figures to perform like athletes on the vibrating board is GOOD BY ME. Maybe if you boilers can educate the community what you feel are the advantages of boiling and give a quick guide on how to do it that it will eliminate some of the animosity. Seems to me people are mainly sceptacle of the unknown. I know I for one am interested in hearing about boiling.
Regards,
Joe

[andre kc]

Hey! I just wanted to say thanks to all the Coaches who took the time to help me?

[kotixblack]

Hey Michigan Joe,
Unfortunately boilable bases are no longer being manufactured due to coaches complaining to Miggle and asking them to make bases with non boilable plastic. It is so funny...Coaches ask Miggle to stop producing boilable bases, they did, and now...guess what? They now go for around $3 per base. That is ridiculous! Why are the boilable bases (original frosties) so sought after by coaches not from the WEST? I don't know the answer to that question but this is what I do know. Reg is right when he says you do what you do. Coaches should learn to leave things alone. If not for the constant complaining and people getting in Miggle's ears on not making this, and that...we would have access to boilable bases, Bullet Boat Bases, and who knows what else. You better buy all of the Pro Lines all you can before production is stopped on those due to complaints.

THIS IS HOW I BOIL MY BASES
STOVE TOP - FILL LARGE POT WITH WATER, ADD 3-6 CAPS OF BABY OIL/MINERAL OIL, LET MIXTURE COME TO A BOIL, THEN DROP BASES IN. LET BASES BOIL FOR 25-30 MIN. LET BASES COOL, REMOVE FROM SOLUTION, LET SOAK IN SOAP & WATER, DRY WITH TOWEL REMOVING EXCESS OIL (I LET MY BASES SIT IN THE SUN FOR A FEW HOURS TO DRY OUT) TWEAK BASE, AND HOPE IT MAKES YOUR SQUAD.
USE THIS FORMULA FOR: ORIGINAL FROSTIES & ANY BASES MADE BY MIGGLE BETWEEN 1999 - 2004.

MICROWAVE - USE MICROWAVEABLE SAFE DISH, ADD 4 CUPS OF WATER 3 CAPS FULL OF BABY OIL/MINERAL OIL. PUT BASES IN THE SOLUTION, RUN MICROWAVE FOR 8-15 MIN. LET BASES COOL, REMOVE FROM SOLUTION, LET SOAK IN SOAP & WATER, DRY WITH TOWEL REMOVING EXCESS OIL (I LET MY BASES SIT IN THE SUN FOR A FEW HOURS TO DRY OUT) TWEAK BASE, AND HOPE IT MAKES YOUR SQUAD.