MFCA Must Establish Universal Rule Set For Members!

[artlax]

Originally Posted by Shabby J

Checkers comes with rules, heck you may have even learned it as a kid from other kids or family members that played checkers and never even read the rules, so I ask you, why would we need the United Checker Players of America to come along and re-write their own version?

I bet they do have a set of rules . Most sports groups like ours do set standards of play just as is being suggested. Doesn't mean it is the only way to play - but a place to start - to get the ball rolling.

[Anthony D Burgess]

When I use to Kick box in martial arts tournaments there was a system that allowed for all forms of the art to be used. You had Forms, weapons forms, and fighting.

A punch was a punch and a kick was a kick no matter the style of martail art you were in, Karate vs Kung Fu, Kempo vs Judo, etc.

Well I believe the same blut print will work, it every one would work together and stop trying to get what they want so they have a better chance to win and focus on what is best or the hobby.

Martial Arts wins when you allow for all forms of the art to compete, well how about doing the same hear, is it more important that you win or the hobby wins?

You have a number of passing procedures, bases, figures, so why not simplifiy things?

Do away with the the issue of base and player weight, and focus on the game of football and uphold the elements of football.

Simple aint it? A no weight area and a weighted area, WOW 2 areas of competition, that is a start.

Over the years many have succeeded in taking a simple game and making it complicated with concerns about what figures and bases are legal, and trying to make every one the same, that is not the answer.

We love this hobby and that is what we all have in common, we have different ideas of what we think is good, well bring you're game plane and play another coach and his game plan in a balanced form that will support all coacking styles, ideas, etc with out restrictions.

But you may have to surrender what you like for what is best for the hobby and right now male pride is preventing many of you from doing so.

And please understand this important point, Many of the things we like are things deep down inside that we feel gives us an advantage and you don't want to lose that advantage that is why many of you don't want to see the advancement of this hobby.

Search you're self and be honest with you're self, that is the very first step need to head in a positive direction.

[BAXTER]

I wanted to add yesterday. At the very least, I think it would be good idea to have kind of a dictionary of most commonly used or all EF/MF terms.

This way, no one has to be concerned with getting their feelings hurt.

-Adrian-

As an outsider looking in, this seems a little absurd that there ISN'T a standard set of rules available to play. Of course each league will have their own tweaks to the rules and varying methods for dealing with different events in the game. But I've been a war gamer for 27 years and have even designed a game professionally, and when I go to a sanctioned tournament...I know that I can go to any city in any state and know that the rules for Warhammer, Advanced Squad Leader, Warmachine, Flames of War, Field of Glory, and on and on...will be the same for me as the guy I've never met. We both know what rules we're playing by, and what our conduct should be. That's for an official sanctioned tournament...but if I walk into the same place on a casual gaming night, I am prepared to be faced with any number of house rules and modifications. And I will play by them because I'm a guest in the house.

Like I said...I'm the new kid on the block, but I really don't understand some of the venom being spewed against the idea of a core set of rules.

Funny...you never hear chess or go players complaining about this!

My suggestion for kicking this off would be this:

The most respected members of the forum....that is those who have developed their own rule sets and head the different leagues around the states...should come together and form a committee. This committee should find the aspects that all forms of EF have in common and start from there. It is clear that a universal set should include options for play with and without the TTQB. The core set should focus on elegance, simplicity, and removing guesswork whenever possible. Player weight also seems to be a point of contention so that would have to be worked out as well. But it seems you should just go with the highest weight allowed in the MOST amount of leagues. As a matter of practicality, it seems Kicking Cards and Passing sticks remove a great deal of "messiness" from the game as it allows for more certainty for these types of plays. I'm not gonna lie, watching the videos, it's hard to tell when that little ball hits a player! But I also understand the arguments about the physical skill of passing, and that is a valid concern. And I REALLY like the whole penalty and injury simulation in the Shootout rules. To me, injuries and penalties are integral to football, and should be included in ANY rule set. And I also REALLY like the magnet thing for MPFL, giving players the ability to "wait and see." But whatever the core rules are, it has to be more than just turning on the switch and watching the guys go if it is to attract more "serious gamers." But not TOO much chrome...else you scare away the more casual crowd.

Just my completely uneducated two bits as I have actually yet to play! But it seems it would be nice to be able to meet with a new player and say..."We'll just play MCFA Standard Rules." Because right now...I wouldn't even know where to start.

[WEIRDWOLF]

Just to update this, a MFCA committee has been put together and will be developing a basic set of rules with the original Tudor set as the foundation. It will be layed out in a format that presents the basic game as most of us know it and will have inclusions for advanced play.

For instance, the basic rules will be any touch tackling but will include a statement that says something to this affect: For advanced play try using FOB (front of base tackling) and will follow with rules that descibe this method.

This is going to be a big task and could take some time but we are off and running with this.

If there are any others who want to be part of this committee, please let us know. We could potentially add 1 more person. Don't volunteer unless you are really interested and have the time to dedicate to this.

[Megawattz]

UNITY, INTEGRITY, FELLOWSHIP from the old AFL & NFC was born the NFL if anyone on this board that has any type of power from league to league cant see the obvious pros forget the cons then they need to step aside & let the true visionaries take over. Im for local rule sets but thats not the ? the big umbrella is the ?. No one said stop playing your local way, what is being proposed is something that will take our hobby to new heights. Every game,sport,contest,race or competition in any country,continent,village or town across the world, from scrabble to professional sports, that has any credibility outside your own community has a standered set of rules that is what binds all & adds lagitamacy to the game,sport ect. If the MFCA is the organization that we all say it is, this has to happen, if not its nothing more than a place to show pics & have these conversations. make it happen peace. MW

First off, Megawatz....I agree with you, but here's the rub. And I'm playing devil's advocate here. Let me take a wargaming example...World War II is a very popular war to simulate on the tabletop. There are many rules sets out there that simulate this game...some in boardgame form and others in miniature game form. Let's just take boargames. Right off the top of my head there is: Band of Heroes, Advanced Squad Leader, Tobruk, and Conflict of heroes to handle platoon to company level engagements....they are all VERY different rules sets with many different PHILOSPHIES on HOW to simulate this level of WWII engagement. Some are more gritty with attention to minute detail, others are a little more abstract and focus more on the flow of the game and the end result. Some get down the actual thickness of the armor on a tank, some worry more about the morale of troops, etc. NONE of thse games are compatable with one another . . . and every one of these games has dedicated followings. Believe me, we get into the same kinds of arguments, because we want people to play the way we like to play.

Likewise, there are many ways to simulate the game of football. And people will have differing opinions on how to do this. Some want to interject the actual skill of passing and kicking using the TTQB, some (like me) are a little more interested in the X's and O's - the coaching - of the game. Some see the game of EF as a pure, simple thing that shouldn't be tainted with complex simulation rules - just tweak your guys and let 'em run . . .some will see it as a means to give a deep reenactment of football.

The key here is whether you see electric football as a means to simulate football or as a sport unto itself. If it is the former, then you will always have a fractured fanbase...if it is the latter, then you MUST have an agreed upon set of rules. But hey...even football has numerous leagues with different rules. The USFL is making a comeback in 2010 - with some interesting rules by the way - like a 4 pt field goal past 50 yards. There's the IFL, AFL, and the AAFL (All American League.) The issue I see is the fanbase for EF is too small to allow itself to be fractured in this way...that is if it wants to gain momentum as a more mainstream hobby. Which I think it is more than capable of being.

My two bits.

Mike

[Michigan Joe]

Originally Posted by mwhite212

The key here is whether you see electric football as a means to simulate football or as a sport unto itself. If it is the former, then you will always have a fractured fanbase...if it is the latter, then you MUST have an agreed upon set of rules.

Mike, this is a very interesting thing you've said here and I think you make an excellent point. The game to me is a sport unto itself (within the framework of the rules of football of course). To me, "playability" is MORE IMPORTANT than the game's ability to simulate every technical detail of the game of football. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Regards,
Joe

[WEIRDWOLF]

The committee is set. The current volunteer members are:
Don Lang
Mike Pratt
George Diamond
Adrian Baxter

We are open to one more if anyone wants to do more than just talk about it!

Read my previous post on this thread for info on how the rules will be designed.

I would not be so presumptious as to suggest that I could be knowledgable enough to be part of the committee. But I would like to make a few points you may want to keep in mind. Bear in mind these are strictly my opinions and am not trying to step on any toes.

In order to have widely accepted set of rules with a broad appeal you must have the following:

1) The game must stay true to certain core roots. Tweaking bases and the TTQB should have a significant impact on the game.

2) Tactical and strategic minded players should be able to have meaningful play development through manipulation of the players during a play. i.e. Stoppages.

3) Creativity, modeling skill, and painting skill should be encouraged within certain guidelines. It is my belief that presentation is a big part of this hobby, and should be included in the "scoring" at tournaments.

4) Some sort of effort to include the individual player's (model's) skill in the game apart from base tweaking should be made. I will make a post on what I mean by this...I'm pretty sure it will get shot down, but it's just a suggestion.

5) Accessibility - there should be an "Amateur" league and a "Professional" league. Amateur's use different (aka CHEAPER!) equipment with tighter restrictions and the pro's should be more opened up with much more customization, scale boards, etc. I would even go so far as to say, because of the board size difference, that the amateur league be limited to 7 man teams. Less for new guys to keep track of and more room to maneuver on the outside.