Are We Setting Our Innovators Up??????

[mozeek]

JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT?

HOW MANY OF OUR INNOVATORS HAVE NFL LICENSING?

UNDERSTAND THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS AFTER SITTING DOWN AND THINKING ABOUT OUR CONVENTION IN CANTON......

HOW WILL WE DISPLAY OUR FIELDS (WITH NFL LOGOS ALL OVER THE PLACE) AND FIGURES (IN THE LIKENESS OF NFL PLAYERS , COACHES AND THE SORTS) AND OTHER THINGS IF THE NFL WILL BE THERE LOOKING OVER OUR SHOULDERS?

MOST OF OUR INNOVATORS FOR THIS HOBBY OF OURS DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER LICENSING...SOOOOOOO HOW WILL THEY BE ABLE TO DO TRANSACTIONS AND DISPLAY THEIR INVENTIONS WITHOUT BEING INVESTIGATED OUR EVEN SHUT DOWN BY THE BIG BULLY?

HOW WILL THIS WORK? JUST A THOUGHT...I KNOW SEVERAL SMALL COMPANIES HAVE BEEN EITHER SHUTDOWN OR BOTHERED TO THE POINT OF EXHAUSTION ABOUT THIS ISSUE...INCLUDING OUR BELOVED MIGGLE/TUDOR SO HOW WILL THIS BE HANDLED?



JUST SOME THOUGHTS CRUISING THROUGH MY MIND

[warriorman]

Very good point ! You have really hit the nail on the head ! I'm wondering same thing ? ? ?

[NATIONAL]

As long as your not selling, it's okay. I think? If you wanted to show off your Giants, there's nothing wrong with that. That's no different than the signs that are shown off during football games.

The problem comes in when you are selling these things.

I'm no lawyer, but I think that's the way it works. I could be wrong tho?

Nat'l

You can't really show any NFL Team names or logos without the proper licensing. Of course, it happens all of the time, but if the offending party (from the NFL's point of view) is making a big enough stir (or $$$) then it gets their attention.

As far as player likenesses go, that's a little bit trickier. I am guessing the NFLPA or the players themselves would have to pursue the offending party. I guess it would be best to create players that look "a lot like" someone...but need to be modified slightly to look just right.

I think Miggle has already started in the right direction...EFL teams that look very similar to NFL teams. They have even stayed away from city references with their EFL teams...but there might be some room there as well...Say you make a game cover that has black and gold "PITTSBURGH" in the end zones but no reference to the Steelers or their logo anywhere. You might be able to get away with that (although their may be some stipulations with city names and NFL uniform color combinations that I am not aware of).

My guess it that it's all pretty hairy...and it's best to either pursue the proper licensing or stay far enough away from those fuzzy areas so that you are safe.

Added comment --- just read Nat'l post...

Yeah, I think you are 100% correct with your own stuff...it's when you start to sell that it becomes an issue...

[Hook'em Horns]

I believe I have the inside track on this guys...I think I understood it correctly so I'll try to relay the information to you as I understood it!

I watched a TV special about a year ago on ESPN2. It was regarding an Artist! Tiger Woods opened a lawsuit against this artist for capturing images of him and reselling them for profit! The image was of Tiger at the Masters. Initially the "Masters" was also going to pursue this man however, Tiger lost the lawsuit and the Masters failed to proceed with any sorts of prosecution.

The verdict was that the man was an Artist. He has a constitutional right as an artsist earn a living. He was protected by his constitutional right to earn a living to capture an image and recreate/duplicate that image and sell it for profit. Images only! Not logos or brands!

Here is another tricky part. Team logos are not the same as the NFL logo. The NFL logo is copyrighted and is affiliated with National Football League. Now the football teams are copyrighted as well but only when they are attached to the name of the team. What I am saying is that you can have a Philadelphia Eagles team painted up exactly like the NFL Eagles and call them the Booklyn Eagles and you will be fine. That's why it is ok for highschools, colleges, and semi pro teams to use the logos of NFL franchises.

As artists you have this right to display your items. However, You may not sell NFL licensed products without a license including the New York Giants but you may bring the "Martin Luther King Ave Giants". Lol.

Players are not protected under this law. That's why Tiger lost the lawsuit. You may capture the image of a Randy Moss and re-sell it without any penalties but do not attached the logo of the NFL on to it. He can be in uniform as well when you re-create it but don't plaster Minnesota Vikings all over it!

It becomes a moral and ethics issue at this stage. How do you feel about selling non authentic product to the public. There are loop holes to the rule.

I'm no lawyer either and please do the research for yourself. This post is only my interpretation of the TV special that I watched on this artist. You should be very careful and mindful of how you conduct your business in the eyes of the law!

[Silverhorse 228]

I am with Corey...as long as we are displaying and not selling, then nothing can be said. Most all of the 620 boards we will most likely be using were purchased in the 1970's by a legal sellar of NFL products, as is the case with the players...

However, we will discuss this in further detail within the convention committee and give you more of a concrete answer. Thanks for bringing this concern to our attention.

Matthew Culp
MFCA Convention Committee Member

If I bring my PERSONAL teams of choice and display them as MY PERSONAL USE teams and don't actively try to sell them, then I'll be alright under the "hobby" law. Even if my stuff has "NFL" and "Chicago BEARS" on it. Those are MY personal possessions and NOT being sold for profit.

However, if someone came along and wanted to buy my stuff, I am entitled to ask for what I spent producing said stuff. If the NFL wants to pursue that transaction and get a cut of it, all I have to do is produce receipts totalling my asking price i.e. wood, motors, graphics, figures, paints, decals, etc. But, just to cover my butt, I wouldn't dare sell anything to someone that I didn't know. They'd have to be established Coaches before they earn my trust and confidence enough to get anything I do.

With that said, if I were an "Innovator" I wouldn't be looking at the MFCA Convention as a money-making trip, but a hobby-building trip!!! I'd just have displays setup and IF anything gets sold it gets sold at or below "cost!" :rolleyes:

Fellas,
If I payed for it, it's mine! I don't give a flying lipnicky about what some franchise or corporation says! For example, As much as my Old School Bucs have embarrased me in public, I should hold the NFL and Tampa Bay Liable. LOOK STOP COWARING IN THE CORNER LIKE CHUMPS! They can't get us all ? Charge the hill men, Let's get them before they can get us!! I'm tired of these corporations getting fat of the masses. You can't download songs or copy movies! Shabazz! They want us to pay outrageous prices for copies, but they won't do write by the artist or the WRITERS! Stand up! Go to your windows and door ways and Scream at the top of your lungs, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" We are promoting something that's still long since forgotten and though some decals and things cost a little more thaan we'd like. I'm sure nobody is making enough money to sustain their yearly salary. If this bothers the NFL, Buck 'em!

[Hook'em Horns]

FYI...

If you purchased the item from Miggle, local stores, or any other licensed dealer you may re-sale without a license and whatever the appreciated value of the item is or whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it.

For instance most houses are sold to you through a real estate agent who is licensed to sell home. However, once you own that home it yours and you may re-sale it at your own price! This is the same in the EFL market. Once you purchase it from a licensed agent you can re-sale at whatever cost and you don't have to pay proceeds to anyone!

Just an FYI...

[Electric Coach]

Over the years I have sent dvd videos to the NFL and Fox Sports depicting electric football action. My goal was to earn respect for this hobby by demonstrating that it can be played contrary to belief. What my videos depicted was well kept teams playing on a handsome field, etc. I know they watched the videos because NFL commentators now are saying things like “back of the end zone”, which came from me the Electric Coach.

Basically, what I am saying is that we the members of this hobby must be careful to depict our NFL teams or any of our teams as positively as possible. We must be sure that we are not depicting poor looking and playing teams. Show the NFL that you are doing something for them by being conscious of how you display and use your teams.

So far the NFL hasn’t told me to stop using their music, team names, etc.

I have some videos on YouTube. You will be able to view them by clicking the “YouTube” button on my site www.electriccoach.com. The site itself has play-by-play videos as well. You will need high speed Internet to view them. The videos will show you what I am talking about.

Maurice

The Electric Coach