Heeve Ho Thoughts In Miniature Football

[mantaraydre]

This business of passing.


First off, IN THE NFL, when a qb drops back to pass (three, four or five step drop) locates his primary receiver for the play and he is open. How lolng would that entire process take before the rush gets to the qb. Is it 5 secs, 7 secs, 10 secs, what is the estimated time frame.

When we figure out how long it takes altogether, why can't we implement that into miniature football. I know burgess has somethjing along those lines (not saying this because i joined his league) but another coach called me tuesday and had the same thoughts. We agreed, in the nfl a the entire receiver unit may not be open on some plays and the qb throws it away.
And what does the anouncer's alway's say. Excellent coverage by the defense.

NOT SINGLING OUT ANY TOURNEY OR STYLE OF PLAY, but in many instances once the board is turned on it is an absolute jail break to the end zone. If your not using the pass placement so the DB can get an interception on the play (via fast rookie bases on your secondary) WE ARE ALL LEFT SHAKING AND HAVING OUR FINGERS CROSSED THAT THE OTHER COACH MISSES
WITH THE TDQ OR TTQB. Well in real football, the db's don't stop once the ball is thrown and say "oh my god, i hope he under or over throws the pass"

When a coach misses with a pass, what's the first words out of the other coaches mouth, A HAPPY "INCOMPLETE" Under there breath, "yeah he missed". Shouldn't there be more to the defense than waiting to see if he can hit that golf shot.

The TDQ and the TTQB are for the brette farve, jay cuttler bullet through the crease's pass. The pace placement is for the Dan fouts, joe namath leading the receiver pass. I love when you guy's incorporate both into your gameplay so we can enjoy both.


I mentioned the timing of the drop back earlier because why can't we have a set time on all pass play's. If a coach say's pass, that board stay's on for the agreed amount of time to drop back and find his receiver. When a coach see's the sack coming, he cut's the board off right away then searches who to throw to. Well if we are trying to immulate the nfl as much as we can, when tom brady see's the sack coming he does not yell freeze and everyone on the football field stop's and wait's for him to make a decision. If you agree on 6 sec for the drop back and wr to get down field, if a blitzer get's there in 4 sec's you can't stop the board to avoid the sack.

So, when the timer goes off in 6 sec's, if you are not sacked, see if your primary receiver is open, if not, your second and third choices and hit one of them with the TDQ or TTQb or pass placement. With the db's running down field with the receiver, you may hit one of them in the back instead of the receiver being wide open by himself due to him slipping past a cover corner because he was on a base with a rounded front.


I AM HOPIMG WE CAN HAVE A CIVILIZED DISCUSSION IN REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT MANY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS


MANTARAYDRE

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by MANTARAY- DRE

This business of passing.


First off, IN THE NFL, when a qb drops back to pass (three, four or five step drop) locates his primary receiver for the play and he is open. How lolng would that entire process take before the rush gets to the qb. Is it 5 secs, 7 secs, 10 secs, what is the estimated time frame.
as I have watched most games, it is in the 3-5 seconds but no more than that to get a pass off in the NFL

When we figure out how long it takes altogether, why can't we implement that into miniature football. I know burgess has somethjing along those lines (not saying this because i joined his league) but another coach called me tuesday and had the same thoughts. We agreed, in the nfl a the entire receiver unit may not be open on some plays and the qb throws it away.
And what does the anouncer's alway's say. Excellent coverage by the defense.

NOT SINGLING OUT ANY TOURNEY OR STYLE OF PLAY, but in many instances once the board is turned on it is an absolute jail break to the end zone.

nature of the beast! One of the drawbacks that is "built-in"If your not using the pass placement so the DB can get an interception on the play (via fast rookie bases on your secondary) WE ARE ALL LEFT SHAKING AND HAVING OUR FINGERS CROSSED THAT THE OTHER COACH MISSES
WITH THE TDQ OR TTQB. Well in real football, the db's don't stop once the ball is thrown and say "oh my god, i hope he under or over throws the pass"

Sorry Dre, you need to play better defense, by this I mean do something other than "bump-n-hold" on a WR... you have to use zones, tricks and hide some of you coverages to make the offense guess just long enough for you speed rushers to get pressure. As for getting INT's - I get more than my share because I use a varity of things for the QB to see before he can pull the trigger.

When a coach misses with a pass, what's the first words out of the other coaches mouth, A HAPPY "INCOMPLETE" Under there breath, "yeah he missed". Shouldn't there be more to the defense than waiting to see if he can hit that golf shot. TRUE!!!

The TDQ and the TTQB are for the brette farve, jay cuttler bullet through the crease's pass. The pace placement is for the Dan fouts, joe namath leading the receiver pass. I love when you guy's incorporate both into your gameplay so we can enjoy both.


I mentioned the timing of the drop back earlier because why can't we have a set time on all pass play's. If a coach say's pass, that board stay's on for the agreed amount of time to drop back and find his receiver.HERE IN THE BEFL, WE USE A TIMER FOR ALL PASS PLAYS. WE GO ON THE 3 SECOND COUNT...EITHER YOU GET SOMEONE OPEN OR YOUR SACKED. When a coach see's the sack coming, he cut's the board off right away then searches who to throw to. Well if we are trying to immulate the nfl as much as we can, when tom brady see's the sack coming he does not yell freeze and everyone on the football field stop's and wait's for him to make a decision.nO HE DOES NOT SAY "FREEZE", BUT HE DOES NOT LET THE DEFENSE HIT HIM WHILE THE BAALL IS STILL IN HIS HAND, EITHER. If you agree on 6 sec for the drop back and wr to get down field, if a blitzer get's there in 4 sec's you can't stop the board to avoid the sack.

So, when the timer goes off in 6 sec's, if you are not sacked, see if your primary receiver is open, if not, your second and third choices and hit one of them with the TDQ or TTQb or pass placement. With the db's running down field with the receiver, you may hit one of them in the back instead of the receiver being wide open by himself due to him slipping past a cover corner because he was on a base with a rounded front.

I understand you views on the extended amount of time the board can stay buzzing on a play...some coaches place their QB 18 yds from the LOS and wait for someone to get open for as long as they can sit there...you need as you second tier OLB guys who can get to that 18yds in 2-3 sec consistantly to make the QB stop the action. It's part of the game, DRE so you have to live with it. Good coaching rule 203 says " quick pressure is cause for concern for the offense. Their timing is ruined when the defense gets in the backfield before the play can develop." If you need more study time on zone defense, refer back to some of the post in the stragey section - a few coaches share some great concepts to try. I say this all the time, you have to KNOW you players first. Then you can "train" then to execute you plan only after spending time on the practice field.


I AM HOPIMG WE CAN HAVE A CIVILIZED DISCUSSION IN REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT MANY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS


MANTARAYDRE

see the color reply above..........

K-Lo

[artlax]

Originally Posted by MANTARAY- DRE

This business of passing.


First off, IN THE NFL, when a qb drops back to pass (three, four or five step drop) locates his primary receiver for the play and he is open. How lolng would that entire process take before the rush gets to the qb. Is it 5 secs, 7 secs, 10 secs, what is the estimated time frame.

Pretty sure the limit for board to run in BAM/DFW is 3 seconds.

WE ARE ALL LEFT SHAKING AND HAVING OUR FINGERS CROSSED THAT THE OTHER COACH MISSES
WITH THE TDQ OR TTQB. Well in real football, the db's don't stop once the ball is thrown and say "oh my god, i hope he under or over throws the pass"

I never expect a coach to NOT complete passes - but try to have a defensive scheme that:
A. Puts pressure on the pocket/QB.
B. Has defenders that alter the course of receivers or stays with them.
C. Places defenders in position to make plays on the ball.

Along with other little twists.

And don't think that even in the NFL the sideline coaches aren't saying I hope he misses - and know they dodged a bullet when the QB throws INC.

MANTARAYDRE

Interesting that you bring this up as Air Jimenez just called me last night and we spoke for some time about the new TDQB, metal QB and other aspects of passing and play.

[jimmie]

Jail breaks are the result of weak pass defence thats all because you get beat by passing dont blame the game check your pass coverage!!

[Anthony D Burgess]

Elements of the Passing Game

There are about 16 elements of the passing game in the game of football.
•Pass Protection
•Pass Rush
•Pass Routes
•Defensive Pass Coverage
•2,3,5,7 yard drops
•QB ‘s Progression
•Type of Pass thrown, (a) Bullet Pass i.e. TTQB, (B) Lead Pass i.e. Pass Placement
•Player Intelligence
•Pass Completed
•Pass Knocked Down
•Interception
•Sack
•Receiver making a play on the ball
•Defender making a play on the ball
•Play Recognition
•Pass Penalties, “Holding, Illegal man down field, Offensive Pass interference, Defensive Pass interference, Defensive Holding,

In our hobby many tend to focus on one single element of the passing game, “The TTQB “!!! The rules by witch they play are structured around this element and it is a key needed to win games 95% of the time. The other 15 elements are implemented under the luck system, role of the dice, or pretend labeling.

When coaches’ express there issues with this area of play, the sad defense is always, “Practice, Defense, Tweaking, etc”. This offers little or no help to the coaches who are trying to enjoy our hobby.

Is the use of the TTQB more important than the other 15 area’s?

What would happen if you took the game out of the hands off the TTQB, and put it in the hand of all the passing elements? Maybe the player on the field would have to earn the result of the play rather then trust it to a role of the dice, a shake of a box, or another form of luck.

The pass rush, and coverage affects the QB’s progression, it can change the QB’s intended receiver and change the type of pass thrown, it changes the pass routes run by the receivers. This is caused by the intelligence of the players on the field, and can negate the TTQB skill that one might have.
(Could this be why the other elements are not used with balance?)

All areas are just as important, but I guess if they are given equal attention then that would take away from there advantage.


Think of it like this, 11 players on defense playing with there eyes closed, 10 players on offense playing with there eyes closed with only the QB being able to see. What would you have?
•Very few interceptions
•No defender making a play on the ball
•Little or no sacks
•No structured Offense
•No structured Defense
•No QB Progression
•No Player Intelligence
•No Passes Knocked Down


By not giving fair balance to all the passing elements you are cheating you’re self out of the full fulfillment of this area of the game. You could be hurting the advancement of this hobby as well.

[jimmie]

16 points huh?Well check this out the best way to defend the pass is get the quarterback ask any coach this is number one! all that other stuff well it is what it is other stuff!!If the guy with the ball is on the ground the play is dead!!

[Brian]

I look at Pass Placement as a way to make the game level for those who can not pass with the TTQB. Using the TTQB is a skill, but with PP not so much. The bottom line is you have to play better D regardless if you are using the TTQB or PP.

Brian

[artlax]

Very good points from a coach who displays great poise and skill in the passing game.

[WEIRDWOLF]

I thought Healy was only a good kicker......now I find out he is a two headed monster of the electric gridiron!

[Anthony D Burgess]

Defense

Sense every one has a focus on the defense then let’s start there. The defense first and fore most is reactionary, and scheme.

Contrary to popular belief, stopping the game to avoid a sack is not the answer to defense. It is a collection of discipline on three levels of the defense, “D” line, Line Backers, Safeties and Defensive Backs.

Out side containment by the DE during the pass rush, line backers covering an area, defensive backs in either out side leverage or inside leverage, depending on the scheme. That is how you play defense, it is not a jail break every play, rush 7-8 players “Blind” and hope they stop the board before a receiver gets open “Blind”.

Now when people watching NFL Playbook and see how to properly play defense, then they see this “jail break” that many in this hobby are trying to pass off as cover 2, Zone, Quarters, Zone Blitz, etc what will they say?

Now if I’m talking football, and you’re playing football then you should understand what I’m talking about.

You are either driving you’re car with the club on the stirring wheel, or without it.

Tell you guys what, have the members of you’re league play flag football, then everyone put a blind fold on except the QB, then run 2 or 3 plays, and tell me if you can play effective defense?
Now take the blind fold off and run 2 or 3 plays then tell me if you can play defense.

Now I know that seems funny but it proves a point, you can play blind, i.e. “jail break” and pretend you’re playing defense, or you can actually play defense.

The Defensive line has a job (rush the passer), the line backers have a job (cover the back out of the back field and scheme), the defensive backs have a job (inside or out side leverage), and the safeties have a job (keep every thing in front of them).

All these positions work together i.e. (Team)! But if every one rushes the passer, and no one plays there proper position what is that?