heeve ho throws in the B.A.M , D.F.W. AND FUTURE TRAVEL LEAGUE

[mantaraydre]

REG, MOZEEK, DARRIAN, R J AND ALL


I honestly think using the shake box as an alternative to the ttqb and tdq may seem somewhat unfair to all coaches who play this sytem. I can ALREADY HEAR " he won because he did not use a tdq or ttqb to pass". You guy's don't se where im coming from because you all use the ttqb. it's like how can you identify with someone in a wheelchair when your playing basketball. Each victory will have a invisible asterisk next to it due to this pass method. THE METHOD IS FINE. i just want conformation that it is accepted by all who play the shootout system.

This would make me feel alot more comfortable. DURING ANY OF MY GAMES, THE OTHER COACH IS WELCOME TO USE THE BOX ALSO IF HE CHOOSES TO.

(ie, lets say mike robertson is losing to me 34-21, lol. and he must pass like crazy to come back. he has receivers open but covered so well he is afraid to throw because the interception chances are way to high due to extreme coverage. he can say, i rather just shake the box to see if i can complete it that way. If we can have that scenerio ONLY IN MY AND JIM DAVIS GAMES, THEN I THINK IT WILL BE SOMEWHAT FAIR BECAUSE THEY HAVE THAT OPTION ALSO). We can call it the texans rule since we both play with houston and must pass the same way.

I hope you guy's can really see where i am coming from on this matter.
Imagine there was a big golf tourney, tiger woods and all. In that tourney is a guy who had surgery on his shoulder due to a previous accident. he can only sink the small shots but if he had to swing the clubs to complete a long shot he cannot. His shoulders won't let hem extend his arms and be flexible. the head of the tourney say's ok, on your long shots, just shake these dice to determine how close the ball would have landed near the next hole (THEY FIGURED OUT SOME SORT OF HOLE AND DISTANCE SYSTEM). That's what it feels like. The other golfers are swinging there clubs and if you are not, they may be thinking this is not fair.

I would not mind if outside sources chimmed in and let me know is this fair to any league. THIS IS SPEAKING ON MY SITUATION. There is nothing wrong in the D.F.W., B.A.M. CBSMF OR THE FUTURE TRAVEL LEAGUE.

IF A SMALL TEXANS RULE CAN BE WRITTEN INTO B.A.M AND D.F.W GOVERMENT. I CAN COME BACK AND TAKE DOWN ALL OF YOU.


I MISS HANGING WITH THE D.F.W GUY'S. COACHES MUST MEET THE GREAT DON HUDSON AND IRA, RD, DEWOYNE , PEP, THE GREAT CURTIS KITCHENS. IM GLAD CURTIS STUCK WITH IT !!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

PS/ I CAN'T PLAY IN THE B.A.M THIS WEEK BUT WILL BE READY TO GO ON THE 9TH. Don't wait for me to complete the season.f you must play someone twice jut do it, as long as you get your games in. Im not making the playoff's this year anyway so plan the sked to complete in the easiest format. IM AM STILL IN, I AM STILL IN . I AM SAYING THIS IN FRONT OF THE LAND SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION WHAT SO EVER ON MY PLANS.

jUST BECAUSE I JOINED THE mpfl does not mean i can't give the other leagues my support and level of play. From now on i am treating all leagues and styles of play as seperate entities. I will enjoy each one when i am in that leagues presence. I will be a phone call from the other league until i return !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


KEEP IT SIMPLE AND SEPARATE IS MY NEW MOJO

[Reginald Rutledge]

Like you, I have a definitive handicap that I must challenge myself to live with every day. And I know like you, I am one that do not want "hand-outs" in any manner because I never want to feel that I did not accomplish something based on my own abilities.

Some guys would ask, "Why would Reg try law school, knowing he stutters?" People have laughed at such a challenge. But I also understand that going into territory that I am not comfortable with is important because whether I do well or not, it has educational implications on all that follow. So it is not only a challenge, but a very necessary one for the good of what we are trying to do.

Similarly, in the DFW, the same can be said for "The Box" rule. Yes, we do allow the option of either passing with a QB or shaking "The Box". Like anything different from what people think the norm is, you will have guys that think they were shortchanged. For those who think that way, I really have no interest in hanging around them because they do not see the big picture. The big picture is to allow everyone to play, in harmony, on a competitive level. If "The Box" is what makes them competitive, that's good for our league.

In a recent game between Jim Davis and Norbert here in the DFW, Jim Davis used "The Box". Norbert, being the guy that he is, never once complained to any of us about Jim using the Box. In turn, you could see the enthusiasm Jim had when shaking up "The Box". Every shake came with an unbridled wonderment of whether something happened. That made me feel good. I saw Jim throw interceptions using "The Box" and great passes using "The Box". I saw him throw the pass, then shake "The Box" and have a dropped pass. His passing averages are just about on average with everyone else. The key ingredient is that he walks away happy and feeling that he played everyone without an asterisk.

Jim is one of those who has great self-confidence so whether or not he could use the dice, he still would be a winning coach. But having that option allows him to compete on a more equal footing.

Jim has played other coaches using this rule. It has not been a problem. It has been a necessary experiment because the "kinks" need to be worked out and Jim has been willing to use the rule.

Furthermore, because we know we are not the NFL and don't try to be, our games have luck. "The Box" brings out the magic in that luck. So if something happens with "The Box", stuff happens! But no one feels any less or better and feel an asterisk has to be put there.

Also, for what we try to do in the game, getting in quantity quality plays is important. With "The Box" and the passing, we stay at 80-100 plays. Both coaches have many opportunities to get something done. And for the Shootout style of play, that's important.

I know you said that this would only work if both of you use this method. What is so different from the stick method? Do you think it is the same if you use sticks and I passed using the QB?

The BAM has it's own rule on that but we have ruled to allow this rule in the league. It takes time and effort to work out the kinks. This is why it is important for guys like Jim to play this method because it is a part of what we do. And only with his input will we know how to tweak the system.

Reg

[mantaraydre]

Reg,

thanx for all of the understanding!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know the dfw is not a proponent of using the sticks. Im not sure if it is due to the speed of the game. I do feel the receiver should make the play on the field. That is why i proposed to mozeek your method with a little twist.

1) receiver is open

2) shake a 6 to 10 sided dice to determine the yards the receiver must run under the catch. " the shake of the box is the actual throw"

3) whatever the dice say is how far you put the ball in front of the receiver in his direct path. NO MEASURING OR ADJUSTING ANYONE !!!! JUST A QUICK COUNT OF THE YARDS AND PLACE BALL DOWN THEN TURN THE FIELD BACK ON FOR THE CATCH.

THIS WOULD TAKE 10 SECONDS TO COMPLETE !

I am not trying to change anything in the shootout rules system. Just trying to be fare to all parties. If that passing system was accepted. A 10 second rule to complete everything should be the law. 5 sec's faster than using the ttqb.


When i was there one night i remeber ira's back was killing him . I think he was supposed to play someone that night. The reason why i said everyone should be able to use it is because of things like that. You never know who just might want to sit for awhile because something hurts but they wan't to continue.

so without the measuring and adjusting your receiver to the measurement. a pass can be thrown superfast without the ttqb or tdq.

if you wan't for defensive purposes. If a coach chooses to pass that way. Once the board is stopped the defense should be allowed to make a SPECIAL DEFENSIVE AUDIBLE. PICK UP ONE DEFENSIVE BACK AND PLACE HIM ALOLNG SIDE THE RECEIVER TO MAKE THE PICK. For instance once a receiver is chosen by the offense the defense can immediately pick up a d-back and put his front part of the base in line with the back part of the receivers base on either side. it will simulate the reciever has 2 STEPS ON HIM TO GET THE BALL. Whichever the directon the receiver is facing the db must align himself right behind him on the sides. ALL OF THIS IN 10 SECONDS

SHAKE PLANT CUT BACK ON

just my thought on a fair scenario with the use of sticks.



mantaraydre

[Reginald Rutledge]

I give you that. But to a man, every coach in the DFW is against using sticks. No disrespect to the sticks but the traditions of the league have been such that everyone has had to learn the techniques of using the TTQB. That is what has been the separation between the levels of passing skills in this league.

That is not to say we are not progressive if there is a coach of great substance that we want as a part of the DFW. That was our feelings about you. That's why the type of rule that was implemented was so with a unanimous vote. No one ever looked at it as something like an asterisk win would happen. I told you over and over, as you questioned me at IHOP, if this would be the case. The guys loved you and just wanted you to be a part of the league.

Our thing is that our games are dependent on time factors. It is our hope to continue to get in 80-100 plays in a game. With shaking "The Box", it gives us that ability. With laying sticks at various distances (at least when I have seen this demonstrated), it can take some time. Guys would rather shake it up and live with that.

Again, now we only have Jim Davis as a guinea pig to see how we can tweak the rule. Jim is a brilliant mind and he will definitely offer good suggestions, you can count on that. Chances are, with his findings, the rules will be changed accordingly but he also understands the importance of quantity quality plays.

I know in the CBSMF, we will allow both methods for people who are handicapped. I've got a good friend out in California, who I had the privilege of playing (Ned Flanders) and he has a similar situation. As I sat there watching him use sticks to throw the pass, I for one had no problem with that. What I did see was a friend opposite me, enjoying my company and trying to beat my butt with a method he was good at. I had no problem with that. Even with that, I do think there should be some time constraints with this method.

Again, each league weigh this out according to what they want to occur in their league. I just know, even Ira Meachem, will tell you that in the DFW if he is not able to pass using the TTQB, his interest to play is not fun, bum hip and knees and all.

I do like what you're saying 'Dre as you always have great ideas and this is something we will study during the offseason, especially with JEasymoney as the lab rat.
Reg

[mantaraydre]

Hey reg,

When you get a chance just run a passing play and see what im talking about.

set up for the pass and wait for the receiver like a normal D.F.W situation


lets say T.O. is open, shake a 12 sided die and see nwhat number it is from 1 to 12. lets say it is the number 8, just put the ball down in fronT of T. O 8 YARDS AWAY THEN TURN BOARD BACK ON IMMEDIATELY. 8 YARDS AWAY THAT BASE CAN TURN AT ANY POINT FOR AN INCOMPLETION. This is super quick. THE DICE REPLACES THE STICKS FOR A QUICKER RESULT.It is even much fast than a coach grabbing a ttqb and setting up for the throw.

I posted this mehtod awhile back and jim davis replied that he liked the idea
If you really want to get cute you can use a 20 sided die so the receiver has to go 20 yards to run under the catch. This is sort of a hybrid D.F.W pass simulation. I purposely left out the sticks due to the DFW standard.

all im trying to do is introduce something that may work that is a little different from the shootout style bylaws. Also was considering the speed of the shootout style when introducing this to assure the speed of the pass methd and speed of the style itself will never be compromised.

I would love to know what ira thinks of this.


thanx

MANTARAYDRE

[Michigan Joe]

Dre,
I really like your idea. I would almost call it the "open reciever lead pass". Its interesting to me that you do not adjust the reciever, its a very clean and simple rule and keeps the defense honest. Thanks for sharing, I'm going to try it in my next father/son game.
Joe

[WEIRDWOLF]

Originally Posted by MANTARAY- DRE

Hey reg,

When you get a chance just run a passing play and see what im talking about.

set up for the pass and wait for the receiver like a normal D.F.W situation


lets say T.O. is open, shake a 12 sided die and see nwhat number it is from 1 to 12. lets say it is the number 8, just put the ball down in fronT of T. O 8 YARDS AWAY THEN TURN BOARD BACK ON IMMEDIATELY. 8 YARDS AWAY THAT BASE CAN TURN AT ANY POINT FOR AN INCOMPLETION. This is super quick. THE DICE REPLACES THE STICKS FOR A QUICKER RESULT.It is even much fast than a coach grabbing a ttqb and setting up for the throw.

I posted this mehtod awhile back and jim davis replied that he liked the idea
If you really want to get cute you can use a 20 sided die so the receiver has to go 20 yards to run under the catch. This is sort of a hybrid D.F.W pass simulation. I purposely left out the sticks due to the DFW standard.

all im trying to do is introduce something that may work that is a little different from the shootout style bylaws. Also was considering the speed of the shootout style when introducing this to assure the speed of the pass methd and speed of the style itself will never be compromised.

I would love to know what ira thinks of this.


thanx

MANTARAYDRE

I might have missed it in the conversation but you might want to have all numbers rolled up to 6 or so count as 6 yards. Otherwise, it's awfully hard to miss from 1-5 yards out.

[Reginald Rutledge]

the DBs to react on the ball/roll? And how would you designate which player has that opportunity if the receivers are engaged?

Reg

[The Rookie]

I would think if they are engaged they cant go for the ball.

[mantaraydre]

hey reg,


I wanted to throw out the basic principle onthis but i wanted you to perfext it. This is your game design for 30 plus years and i will abide by however you craft this new passing system.

wolf is right, the dice need to be created were the distance of the ball from the receiver is fair to the defense. (not to easy).1 yd to 5 yds may be a gimmie. HOW ABOUT 8YDS TO 15YDS on a 20 sided die.

when shaking the box for a pass

1-5 (ball is underthrown into the turf, incomplete)
6-7 (not sure, leave that up to you)"maybe 6 interception and 7 offense pass interference
8-15 (place ball that many yds away according to the dice)
16-20 ( ball is overthrown, too far for receiver to run under, incomplete)

coverage

youcan make it simple and let the defense pick up and aim whoever they can in ten seconds "that will make the qb think about where to place the ball in a hurry and not make a mistake. it will be murder to call the wrong receiver in 10 secs, plant ball down not realizing other db's and linebackers can get picked up and aimed directly at the ball for a pick. It's the same as a nfl qb making a bad decision because he did not see that lb or db.

or

you can play by the hashmarks (sideline to hashmark)

if the receiver is open on the left or right side of the field, the defense can pick up and aim anyone on that side of the field (hashmark to sideline)

if the receiver is open in between the hashmark, it's free game for anyone on the defense since they can get to the middle of the field from either side of the hashmarks

engaged receiver's

if it were me i would rule the penalty for a qb to thow to an engaged receiver is to shake the box, if the 8-15 number shows up, place ball that distance away AND THE DEFENSE CAN PICK UP THE DB OR DB'S AND LINE THEM UP RIGHT NEXT TO THE RECIEVER( like neck and neck in a race).
in this instance the ball is placed right in the middle between the wr and db's base.NOT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE RECIEVERS BASE. this is that tight deon sanders coverage and they are both going for the ball evenly. It's a foot race to the ball since coverage was so tight

This way of pasing is way more risky than using the ttqb. It is more defensive friendly with the pick up and aims. But that is the price we pay for not using the ttqb. you can cut the entire pass play down to 7 sec's if you like. That's how fast this can be done

shake>>> read dice>>>>plant ball>>>cut field back on

THE DEFENSE KNOWS THE BALL IS GOING DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE RECEIVER SO THEY CAN PICK UP AND AIM AS SOON AS THEY HERE THE DICE NUMBER

THANX
MANTARAY