General Passing Question #2

[BAXTER]

Yo Mr. Burgess,

Your previous thread is locked, so I thought I would start another so that I could get my 2 cents worth in. If we need to talk off-line, just give me a holla, but as I undertand it, this if for the newbie. So, here hear goes nothing:



For as long as I have been in this hobby I have seen a hole lot of thing pertaining to the passing and what many seem to focus on.
Your perception may not be everybody else’s reality.[/color][/b]

Many focus on the ball in flight from the QB to the receiver, and that is all that they focus on.
I have no clue on who you have spoken with on this issue, but any good passer knows that they can’t pass the ball to a player who is not open. Furthermore, this person(s) would also know that you can’t pass the ball if you don’t have the time to pass the ball. An even better coach knows how to make the appropriate adjustments (no matter how simple or intricate) to get receivers open and buy time.

But what about the other areas of the passing game? Do the have no value?
It’s like Rague, my man… IT’S IN THERE! Many areas of the passing game exists in EF/MF/BB. Search and you shall find. As they say about the lottery, you have to play to win. Well, perhaps, taking the same approach here would work as well. To answer all your questions, perhaps it would be better understood and realized if played under the various different rule-sets this wonderful and be-loved hobby of ours has to offer.

What about the defenders right to make a play on the ball?
It's in there. I don't really have a lot of time to respond to this one, but it become very evident when you play the game.


What about combination routes run by the receiver?
If you TWEAK a base properly and place it on the right figure, one can achieve these ZIN like feats. In this game, you can’t really get away with testing a lot of bases by just letting them run straight out of the bag until you get one you might think will work. It takes coaches like, Norbert Revels, Jim Davis, Kenny Allen, Mike Pratt, Kelvin Lomax (just to name a few), that are masters of the TWEAK to get bases to perform such feats. Never-the-less… it can be done and happens more often than some may think.

What about the receiver, or defender catching the ball? ( If the QB throws it "TTQB" then what about the receiver catching it ? and this done in real time the same as running the ball )
Not sure if I understand.

What about the QB buying time in the pocket?
This can be achieved with the usage of the standstill base, roll-out QB and the implementation of what some call the “scramble rule.” I am sure I’ve left a few things out, but remember, where there is a will, there is a way.

What about the QB's progression ? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th reads?
When no pressure or very little to late pressure is applied, you can make the progressions necessary to pick your best option. Sometimes you can intentionally look over the first receiver when in need of a bigger play. You can also decide to hit the open receiver later as opposed to when he first break-open. Again, these things can be done, are done, but not talked about as often as other aspects of the game.

It seems to me that when one thinks or talks about the ttqb or other form of this type of passing, then why is all the other parts of the passing game not as important?
It’s all important. There is more to the passing game in EF/MF/BB than meets the eye. What some choose to spend most of their time talking about is of no consequence to the realities of what actually exists in this game.

Is it right to focus on the flight of the ball only, and not value the other areas
1, Pass routes run - It’s in there
A: Combination routes - It’s in there
B: Open area in a zone - It’s in there
2, Defenders right to the ball - It’s in there
3, Defensive pass rush ie pressure - It’s in there
4, Offensive line men picking up the blitz - It’s in there
5, QB buying time in the pocket, ie moving around - It’s in there
6, QB's progression – It’s in there
A: 1st Receiver
B: 2nd receiver
C: 3rd receiver
D: 4th receiver
E: QB pulling the ball down and running

These are all apart of the passing game in football, however they are not being reflected in a game that is suppose to " Play like real football "
The above listed items are reflected heavily, I might add, in every EF/MF/BB game I’ve ever played. But, only certain things are talked about more than other. Maybe that’s more of a behavioral question than anything else.

I thought that this would be a good question to ask seeing that there might be new member to this hobby and this might help them to understand the passing game in this hobby
I appreciate your concern for the newbie. I also would like the newbie to know, or at least, have a better sense of the answer(s) to the question(s) you’ve brought forward.
To sum this all up, I believe it all comes down to your perception being your reality. One’s perception is further enhanced when one chooses to use their imagination with an open mind. Instead of just smelling and tasting the flavor of the Rague, perhaps one should experience all that’s involved in making the Rague. I am sure there have been many minor improvements/changes to some of the different types of Rague in the past 20 years or so. I mean this in the most positive way. An open mind and imagination can go a long way in understanding re-enforcing some of the answers/responses to what you have brought forward. Seek and you shall find, but only with an open mind.

-Adrian-
Leader of the Silver Surfers

[MplsTom]

If you TWEAK a base properly and place it on the right figure, one can achieve these ZIN like feats. In this game, you can’t really get away with testing a lot of bases by just letting them run straight out of the bag until you get one you might think will work. It takes coaches like, Norbert Revels, Jim Davis, Kenny Allen, Mike Pratt, Kelvin Lomax (just to name a few), that are masters of the TWEAK to get bases to perform such feats. Never-the-less… it can be done and happens more often than some may think.


Adrian: You're my friend and you gave a thoughful reply. I do have to question the "combination route" principal, though on bases with prongs. Physics would tell me that on a flat board this would not be possible. A base is either higher or lower and unless the prong is changing throughout the route, it would not be able to reliably start out facing straight, go one direction and then the other.

I've seen some bases that "jump" a bit to the side off the switch before they move, but I'd hardly classify that as a change directions kind of route.

[BAXTER]

First, I guess I need to know what a combination route is, hah.

I have seen a players, when not met with much resistance, start off straight, make contact with a cornerback slide to the left go straight for a bit slant to the left and then curve right. Maybe I am just dreaming, but I believe I've seen stuff like this before. I believe you call these type of bases "squirley" bases. They tend to do some unbeliveable things. Sometimes not so consistent though, but it happens.

-Adrian-

[Anthony D Burgess]

Adrian and Tom

Let me if I can explain a combination route.

A combination route is when a receiver has 2-3 routes he can run and it is based on the reactions of key defender and pass coverages. Both the receiver and QB need to read the same thing.

Example: Out side leverage by a DB ( the DB is close to the side line taking away the out route ) the read is the SS and LB. If the LB move forward, the receiver runs a slant, if the SS moves up then the route changes to a fly, if both the SS and LB stay home the route is a dig. When the QB and receiver are on the same page this is can be hard to defend.

Now there is no way that you can tweak a base to have intelligence to read this and perform it. When to breake a route off because the QB is in trouble! No a tweaked base can't do that, know where the first down stick is and adjust the route beyond the stick ! No a tweaked base can't do that.

Precise routes, In, Out, Slants, Post Corner, etc need tobe run sharply, and can't be rounded off. I have never seen a base tweaked or not run the route like it is supposed to be run.

But if you can pretend that that is the route that was run then I can understand point of view .

I understand about tweaking bases, I tweak my own, however the point I want to make clear is this ( Player Intelligence ) There is no substitue !

If a person pretends it's there then I can see there preception

[mozeek]

Combo Route is when two different receivers in most cases on the same side of the field run one route over the top or underneathe to occupy the safety and then the second receiver runs a route off of that read of the safety or THE secondary......

one receiver having the choice of which route he is going to run based on his read of the secondary is called an option route......
but being that we have less intelligence than those that play your style i could be wrong...but i doubt it.......

COME ON MAN THAT WAS TOO EASY

ADRIAN AND RUES...VERY GOOD POINTS.........

[Tomkat]

Anthony - did you try passing the way i explained?

Adrian - Well stated. Even if I don't see it completely the way you do. But isn't that the REAL attraction of this hobby - the way we each look at the same thing but see it in a slightly different to completely different way? If we use our imagination, everything football related IS in there. And beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. :::::segue::::: Has anyone told you lately that you have a beautiful mind?

TomKat - If I read your method correctly, I tried it. Hopefully I followed the directions in the desired manor. From what I understand it looks and feels very much like the NHFL ATTAC passing method but with a reverse twist. I.E., instead of throwing an accurate pass first (hitting the ATTAC passing target before going to the ball), you have the receiver and defenders react to the planned route. If the receiver hits the ball the O coach then has to hit the target (an accurate pass). If a defender hits the ball then the D coach attempts the pass. While having the D coach throw that pass may seem very awkward to many, it makes perfect gaming sense. It would be a completely fair way to resolve the situation. IF I understand it all correctly,,,,, If I got it wrong it wouldn't be the first time. Feel free to throw rotten veggies and soured fruit at me.

In gaming terms, replication techniques and styles of play fall into the three basic categories: 1) Arcade - Let er rip from start to finish. 2) Simulation - Stopping the action only for tactical purposes, be it basic or technical, yet certainly limited. 3) Reenactment - A blow by blow total reproduction of an action or event. Usually reserved for history buffs wanting to replicate an exact historical event. Sometimes used with specific historical situations, giving each side/team a chance to see what they would do in that exact situation.

Hobbyists and casual gamers are usually attracted to arcade, simulation or a concoction/mix thereof. Gamers are usually attracted to simulation, reenactment or a concoction/mix thereof. The "RIGHT" method to use is the one that gets you on the board with good company to have a good time. The rest may seem important to us on a more personal level. But I assure you, it IS far less important how you choose to replicate pass plays than it is who you are sharing board time with.

Fun, Food, Friends,
-Mike Pratt

[Anthony D Burgess]

I have made an error in my explanation. The definition is correct, however the word I used was wrong. The correct word is " Option Route "

Now I am sure some got a big kick out of this, I did as well!

It is funny, when I got up at 4 am it hit me, "Bam" I used the wrong word! So when I got to work I got to email from 2 good friends, LOL !

Now I am sending this from my iPhone befor the Captain get in, LOL !!!!

[BAXTER]

clarification on the combo and option routes Mozeek and Ant.

All I am saying here is that a lot of the things you've brought forward is there. If it happens to be 9 out of 10 or 8 out of ten, it's still there and that's a good thing. Please focus on the positives. Improvements to this style of play is being made gradually. In general, at least in my eyes, I see it. Although receivers do not run crisp routes, they do run routes. Some more consistently than others. The consistency of these things are contigent upon a lot of factors (board vibrations, board speed, defensive schemes, etc...). Most newbies I speak with have not been as tecnical or critical. They are more impressed by how far we've come in the past 20 years or so with various aspects of the hobby, including game play.

So, for the newbies, there are many more aspects of real football that can be found in this game we play today, more so than before. As for the people that want more... there is always another way to play the game. But, if you decide the play EF/MF/BB, with the right people and attitude, it can be a whole lot of FUN!!!

To everyone that has expressed and opinion on this post, I appreciate it. I am now finished with this subject.

Oh, and BTW, I meant Ragu in my previous post.

Thanks again fellas. Peace!

-Adrian-

[MplsTom]

Well said, guys.

I do respect and appreciate the many different ways that this game is played. More importantly, I enjoy the fellowship and friendship of the guys whom I meet at tourneys, etc.

Let's keep bangin' new ideas and recycling worthwhile ones. My only note is watch the tone of the posts...guys like me and others will probably react to any inference that we are less evolved or strategic by playing a certain way.

Q: Why do democrats have more children than Republicans?
A: Anyone ever hear of someone enjoying a good piece of elephant??